now the first link includes such harsh name-calling as "pretentious" so watch yourselves. the 2nd one, on the other hand, contains nothing so vile (aside from my slipping in soft-core porn ) so feel free to click on that if you have weak hearts
now...how the heck can either of these closings be justified? no cursing, major name-calling, or ignorant bashing.
can we at least have a rule at the top that says "must not speak unfavorably about tolkien"?
hell i wouldn't even have broken THAT rule on the 2nd one
-------------------- The Saga is Complete
Star Wars: Episode III: The Betrayal of Obi-Wan Kenobi
posted
You blasphemer. May you be sent to depths of the Middle-Earth equivalent of Heck.
Posts: 15416 | From: Des Moines, IA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
oh yeah...sam's gay and the next movie's gonna have freakin' talking trees
heheAi Yori Aoshi is the kind of show that could be dismissed as garbage suck, if it weren't so darned good. It starts out with a surprisingly affecting romance between Kouru and Aoi before switching gears to the familiar genre in which a half dozen beautiful women chase after one boy. These episodes (basically the first disc) are probably the best of the series and it was sad to watch them go. I found the change to the been-there-done-that to be a shame, until I realized that behind all the stereotypes and gratuitous bath scenes an attempt was being made to get the harem genre right! The romance between Kouru and Aoi may have taken a backseat for some episodes, but is there to provide grounding for the plotline and for some of the series’ strongest moments. In the end the detours may have even helped the romance out by delaying stagnancy and creating anticipation. Some of the characters I most figured I would hate became my favorites of the series. Tina looks set to completely ruin the series when she first jumps in. She’s over-the-top and downright obnoxious. But, over time you realize that not only is she quite possibly the most interesting character in the series, but she also has a legitimate claim on Kouru dating back to before the beginning of the series. In another timeline you could actually see the two of them ending up together. Mayu, the debutante, is quickly shown to be a lonely and quite pathetic character beneath her grating exterior. Even Miyabi, who would become merely roadblock on most other shows, goes against type and works as a shepard for the young couple. Little touches such as these serve to make the characters more likeable and push the show above a genre that’s been picked clean over in the past decade. Ai Yori Aoshi may not be the greatest anime series I have ever seen, but it is the best of its kind and made for a pleasurable viewing experience.
[ 12-16-2005, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: son of lucas ]
-------------------- The Saga is Complete
Star Wars: Episode III: The Betrayal of Obi-Wan Kenobi
posted
Well, I believe most of us consider the attitude of a person to be just as important as what they're actually saying. You may believe this to be irrelevant, but if you can't at least see where it might cause problems, then I don't know what to tell you. You've posted quite a few negative, cynical and sometimes insulting responses there. I don't think it should be a surprise that people aren’t thrilled about letting you remain involved.
To answer the question, no, there’s nothing wrong with expressing your dislike of LOTR. But when you’ve consistently done it in such a cynical and condescending way, I wouldn’t blame anybody for stopping a thread that you’re helping to lead in the wrong direction.
-------------------- Ummm....I don't know what this means....but a giant iceberg just winked at me. Posts: 20122 | From: Terminal Dogma | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Mandard: Well, I believe most of us consider the attitude of a person to be just as important as what they're actually saying. You may believe this to be irrelevant, but if you can't at least see where it might cause problems, then I don't know what to tell you. You've posted quite a few negative, cynical and sometimes insulting responses there. I don't think it should be a surprise that people aren’t thrilled about letting you remain involved. If that were the case then the prequels board would have closed thread after closed thread, and many members would have been bannded. To answer the question, no, there’s nothing wrong with expressing your dislike of LOTR. But when you’ve consistently done it in such a cynical and condescending way, I wouldn’t blame anybody for stopping a thread that you’re helping to lead in the wrong direction.
If that were the case there would be closed thread after closed threasd in prequels. To go along with the numerous banned members.
-------------------- I will wish upon a star I believe in you And if my will has strayed afar I rememebered you Will you remember me I the one you sentenced Pennance unabsolved Answer me save my will have you forgotten me
posted
Well I think sol is no worse than The_Prophecy and his constant bashing of Star Wars and he is allowed to post on Prequels. I don't see his threads getting closed. I am not condoning what sol did but you have to admit it looks inconsistent.
posted
I'm sure people realize that all the boards are not the same. Nor are all moderators the same. If I choose to be more lenient at prequels than OS is at LOTR, so be it. True, if I wanted to, I’d be justified in closing tons of threads at prequels. But I choose not because I don’t feel it’s in the best interest of that board to be so strict. Every moderator has the right to enforce his/her board the way they feel is best (within reason, of course). Moderators aren't carbon copies of each other. Everybody does things a little differently. To be perfectly honest, if I was the mod of LOTR, I probably would not have closed your threads. At least not so quickly. But I'm not the mod. If I wanted to insist on a perfect, site-wide consistency, I’d moderate every forum myself. But that’s not practical, so we have moderators who are expected to think and act on their own. Which means that things will sometimes vary from board to board. I don't think this is anything new.
Certainly, if I feel a moderator is out of line, I’ll have a word with them, but I don’t think this is one of those situations.
-------------------- Ummm....I don't know what this means....but a giant iceberg just winked at me. Posts: 20122 | From: Terminal Dogma | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Agreed. Different mods have different policies. If they establish their conditions then people can follow them accordingly. Otherwise, it would get out of hand.
But I say let SoL keep posting. The time will come when he wil shoot himself in the foot with his attitude and then the time would be right to close the topic, but not after watching him humiliate himself first.
-------------------- They're gonna cut off my health insurance? I'll be more diseased than Dumpy the Medical Waste Man! Posts: 7741 | From: Petoria | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Still, it was never covered in that thread what LOTR "rips off"...
Posts: 15416 | From: Des Moines, IA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I guess it has to do with how you look at Nightly. I know some people just post at one board and when they come here they only care about the rules of that particular board. But for people like myself who post on several boards, I tend to lump them all together as being Nightly.net. Not individual boards with their own sets of rules. While each board's Mods are capable of setting there own rules, there is general set of rules that is applied to all of the boards, the TOS etc. Each mod should be allowed to interpret and enforce the rules on a case by case basis. But certain rules are and should be clearly stated to apply across all of the boards. For example, people can not post pornographic pictures on any of the boards because Nightly is a PG rated Forum.
Trolling is usally not allowed on any of the boards. But it tends to be interpreted differently by each Mod. To me going on a board like Star Wars/Star Trek/LOTR etc... and bashing the thing most people on the board love simply for the sake of bashing it is a milder type of trolling because it is only going to cause a fight like it did here. That doesn't mean you can not criticize the films. It has to do with your intentions as Mandard stated earlier. Perhaps in this particular case a more consistent and board wide approach would be better. Simply to clarify what is/is not acceptable for both the Mods and the members.
posted
I agree with something ES said. Just going around to boards like SW or LOTR or Buffy, and bashing it because you don't like it, is just trying to start something and there really is no point.
-------------------- Our generation has had no Great Depression, no Great War. Our war is spiritual. Our depression is our lives. Posts: 1720 | From: Reston, Va, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I’m kind of going off on this. It’s only partially related to the subject at hand but it’s a good general summary of how I feel on some things and although I’ve posted similar things in the past, it’s been a while since I last did it. Mainly, I didn’t want anybody thinking that this was a direct response to them. Just a generalized FYI for anyone who’s interested that hopefully covers some of the points here. Having said that…
Personally, I’m not really sure where I’d begin on setting further board-wide rules than what we have. There are just too many possible situations with too many contributing factors. My policy, which I’ve stated in the past, is to use the general rules and then simply deal with each individual situation as it comes up. This way you can take into account factors such as which members are involved, what their history is, how often it’s occurred, the attitude of the members, how cooperative they have or haven’t been, the seriousness of each instance, whether they were joking around or meant serious harm, etc, etc, etc. There’s an unlimited number of factors in each situation that could affect what decision is made. Specific, preset rules don’t take into account any of these things and simply assume that all similar situations should be treated equally.
I’m just trying to be realistic. Dealing with a problem based on its individual circumstances is how things will always be dealt with, whether people realize they're doing it or not. People just automatically evaluate a situation for what it is without even thinking about it. So I don't think that comprehensive lists of rules and behavior are necessary unless you’re dealing with an organization so large that it’s impractical for everything to be dealt with individually. We’re not that big and probably won’t ever be. Trying to come up with some comprehensive behavior guide and proclaiming that all must obey or perish may sound really impressive, but IMO, it would just be blustering and deceptive since there would surely be all sorts of exceptions to every rule.
For example, let’s say we’ve put in a set rule that says anybody that says such-and-such will be banned. Later on, this inappropriate remark was then said by two members. One of them has only been here a week and in his short time, he has been involved in several minor fights and posted lots of controversial replies that could be intrepreted as provoking other members. The second is a longstanding member who has been around for several years and has never had any history of problems. So now you have two choices. Enforce the rule, ban them both and treat a good, solid member the same as a newbie troublemaker. Or concede that the set rule is flawed and that you’re going to punish the member who deserves it and forgive the one who’s really a good member, but simply made a mistake. I suspect that most people would choose the latter.
The general rules stand for all boards: no trolling, no flaming, no flooding, no inappropriate material. Any more rules (such as rules on off-topic threads, spoiler policies, game rules, etc) can be added by moderators if and when they need them. Within these guidelines, I hope that each moderator uses their good judgment and common sense to help keep their board running smoothly. IMO, board-wide rules more specific than these is only asking for trouble. I’m not interested in dealing with people wondering why a specific rule was applied in such-and-such a case and why it wasn't in another one. Those tend to be rather tedious and unproductive discussions.
Lastly, we’re not perfect. We all make mistakes. Sometimes the decisions that are made may not have been the best choice. But is a closed thread or edited post really that important in the long run? We’re talking about an internet message board run by volunteers in their spare time that anybody can use free of charge. I hope we can all just relax a bit and enjoy ourselves without letting these little distractions get in the way.
And if anybody’s not satisfied for any reason, please do not hesitate to take us up on our unmatchable double-your-money-back guarantee.
-------------------- Ummm....I don't know what this means....but a giant iceberg just winked at me. Posts: 20122 | From: Terminal Dogma | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
In response to people "bashing" certain topics, I’m not aware that this is happening on a widespread basis. If I’m mistaken, please correct me, but as I’ve wandered through the boards, the instances I’ve come across seem to be mostly isolated and I feel the moderators are doing a good job of handling it.
So I gather that this is mostly directed at Prequels, where I will admit that things have a tendency to get out of hand. I’ll certainly take responsibility for this since I was moderator there. I had not watched things as carefully as I had in the past and often a thread that should not have been left unchecked slipped by. Hopefully, things will improve. This was one of the reasons I put in another moderator. I told DQG that I had sometimes let things go further than they probably should have and that he’s free to take care of them as he sees fit. It’s only been a short time and maybe I’m a bit biased, but it seems things are already a little better.
-------------------- Ummm....I don't know what this means....but a giant iceberg just winked at me. Posts: 20122 | From: Terminal Dogma | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Ryn: Still, it was never covered in that thread what LOTR "rips off"...
I thought it was clear the whole SW vs LOTR thing, and anything related to it, was not welcome...
-------------------- They're gonna cut off my health insurance? I'll be more diseased than Dumpy the Medical Waste Man! Posts: 7741 | From: Petoria | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Thanks for going over my head on this one... Seemingly I am the last to know about this thread.
Now, SOL. I have no interest in popularity contests or Nightly politics. I have nothing against you or anyone else.
I also have nothing against you or any other person who dislikes Tolkien in posting at LOTR with your views on why this is so. But the threads in question have contained no real debate concerning your opinion of Tolkien. My job here (voluntary as it is) is to encourage discussion of Tolkien. With posts from yourself such as "well i consider most tolkien fans to be a bit pretentious anyways do to how horrid the books really are so...", i dont see what you are trying to achieve except maybe isolate yourself from the rest of the board who consider themselves tolkien fans...
You said earlier: "i've been in heated arguments and neither of those threads even come close to the average lyceum thread all i demand is enough rope with which to hang myself. frankly i don't think that an unfair"
I just dont see what constructive (ie not inciting others to flame you) argument you are trying to make over at LOTR. Its not up to me to justify the reactions of other members there but i dont see what other reaction you could expect.
As for your last point, i havn't moved the topic. I merely wondered if it would be better in another forum. With a title like "WARNING: If you love LOTR, do NOT enter this thread." it is bound to attract negative attention. My secondary job as mod is to keep the peace so you can understand why this worries me.
Posts: 4427 | From: Scotland | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
next time you won't be lucky enough to have someone like me who'll go "over your head" every time and go to the feedback board. your actions will result in spamming, flaming, and worse when a REAL trouble-maker comes through
of course...if you prefer i can copy this thread and post it onto the lotr board and we can continue there. if that's TRULY what you want
quote:But the threads in question have contained no real debate concerning your opinion of Tolkien.
there WAS real discussion going on...especially in the "rip-off" thread.
quote:I just dont see what constructive (ie not inciting others to flame you) argument you are trying to make over at LOTR.
i'm giving my opinion...no more, no less. no construction is being attempted. if that is flame-worthy i assure you i can take care of myself
quote:Its not up to me to justify the reactions of other members there but i dont see what other reaction you could expect.
other people's reactions are my problem, not yours, unless they get out of line...which they haven't
though you're not helping by creating such a circle-jerk atmosphere where any disagreements are met with rubbish as posted above me
quote:I merely wondered if it would be better in another forum
you and prophecy seem to be the only two people who think lotr topics belong on other boards
[ 04-19-2002, 03:56 AM: Message edited by: son of lucas ]
-------------------- The Saga is Complete
Star Wars: Episode III: The Betrayal of Obi-Wan Kenobi
Richcelt
Musician, Historian, and Stalker Extraordinaire
Member # 2763
posted
It's been said before, but I feel compelled here to say it again. What's the point of entering a topic or a forum that you don't care for simply so that you can STATE the fact that you don't care for it? You're not haveing a debate, you're having - STARTING - an argument, simply for the sake of argueing.
If you NEVER enter a topic or forum, and anyone cares to notice, then it's naturally assumed that, at best, you have no interest in said topic or forum. At worst they assume you hate it. By going IN there and expressing exactly that opinion then everyone KNOWS what they had once assumed AND you look like a flaming jerk (in every definition of the term) in the eyes of everyone there. It quickly becomes obvious that your whole PURPOSE to be in that topic or forum is to cause TROUBLE. THAT'S why threads get closed and people get banned, more than for any other reason I would bet.
I personally don't care for wrestling. Therefore, you never see me go into the wrestling forum, and certainly NOT just so I can announce that "WRESTLING IS SO FAKE" or that "WRESTLING FANS ARE PATHETIC LOOSERS WITH NOTHING BETTER TO DO IN THEIR LIVES BUT TO WATCH GROWN MEN PRETEND TO BEAT EACH OTHER UP". These may be my opinions, and I'm well intitled to them, but I don't go into the forum and announce such things JUST so that I can see the riot I created. I've got better things to do with my time. I've got other topics and forums that I DO like and would rather spend my time THERE instead of places I don't.
If you don't care for LOTR, or Harry Potter, or Star Trek, or Star Wars, or Wrestling, or whatever, then simply DON'T go to those particular forums and DON'T incite an argument just because you feel it's your right to do so. And DON'T complain when the thread gets closed or you get banned, or both, because you did exactly that.
Simply put: Grow up and get over yourselves!
-------------------- Wizard's First Rule: People are stupid; people can be made to believe any lie, either because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it's true. -- Terry Goodkind
posted
I agree. I think LotR is a good story, but not the masterpiece people attribute to it, so I stay away from the forum. I personally don't get the appeal of Star Wars, but you don't see me going into the Star Wars forums and calling the movies predictable children's fairy tales, do you? No. I just stay away from it and from all of the forums that do not interest me. I don't go posting somewhere that I do not have an interest in merely to cause trouble, which is what it seems like you were doing.
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